Hi,

Been offered four bottles of Ch Clarke 1982 for sensible money.

I have tried searching for a guide on this house and price etc and have come up blank.
I know 82 is a top year but need some more info to decide on buy or leave though ??

Cant find any UK outlets either for Clarke 82 ??

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He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions.

Have had a snoop around O Mad One and the news is not good. Originally rated at 68/100 and now, it seems, well past it's best. As you say, n/a in uk by the look of it (probably for the above reason). On the info that I've seen, I would give it a miss.

Richard,

I'd fancy being offered one or two of these old bordeaux classics that float past your window and will comb through my info, and report back and take a risk, if you'd like to share some of this stuff - I will work on it as well.

A bit of info on the Listrac Commune

Listrac and Moulis are between St Julien & St Laurent and Margaux , Soussans. None of the chateau Listrac properties are by the river where the grand cru's are. But instead, are positioned on a plateau inland. Today , good listrac is quite powerful, with finesse and fruit and are long keeping wines.

I'm laying down 1 x 2002 and 3 x 2003 Fourcas-Hosten Listrac - cru grand bourgeois exce'l - Listrac and mmoulis were affordable !!

OK. This is what I have gleaned from David Peppercorn.
Chateau Clark, a Listrac was Cru Bourgeois exceptional, but may have been promoted since 1980 or so.
30,000 cases, cuvee was listed as 49% cab, 37% Merlot, 10% cab franc 4% PV (petite verdot) in early 80's

Owner Baron Edmond de Rothschild, who bought the property around 1979 or 80.
This property was one of the most remarkable developments in the medoc at the time. The Baron has undertaken a long term scheme of modernisation of installations and investment in quality in vineyard management. What has been done is said to be worthy of a good cru classe' But this may take some years to realise.
Prior to the 1982 vintage, DP found the wines to be somewhat lean and austere, and marked by new wood.
The '82 however, gives a fair idea of the potential of this cru as the investment / property attributes mature.
For 1982 - There is a strong assertive flavour, typical of Listrac. but there is plenty of fruit and richness, and the new oak is completely absorbed.

For my experience:
I can confirm that 1982 was truly wonderful in all of the important communes on the left bank. I've massively enjoyed loads of '82 cru bourgeois wines, but at under 20 years - How long do they last at 3rd cru classe level shall we say ? It depends.

Giscours '82 was magnificent when drunk in 2002 and not tiring fading or becoming lacy at all. It was stored very well

Now Richard - what info do you have on how other 82's have been keeping up until 2008/9, the Good ones from Moulis and Listrac

Look up Chasse Spleen for starters, Look up Poujeaux, and Maucaillou. Then a bit of interpolation needs to be employed to measure the risk.

It will be past it's peak, but still ...........lets work it out

Richard - how much do they want per bottle ? If I may inquire.

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Duncan

Duncan,

Thanks for your opinion much appreicated.

£20.00 a bottle which seems really cheap to me ??
He has four left, I would have to collect them whilst in France though.

I am next over in 4 weeks time.

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He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions.

Bacchus,

Hi, where did you find the ratring of 68/100 ??

Would be interested to know, always thought 82 would hold up as a decent vintage ?

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He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions.

http://www.90plusratedwines.com/Wine/18 ... e-(Chateau)---Listrac/1982.aspx

No, not necessarily.

It's dark outside now, and I have spent a bit more time on it than I should.

The Baron bought Clarke in 1973. So plenty of time for his investments and improvements to have effect.

However by the time we get to the end of the 90's the Baron 'seems' to have given up making a 'grand' Grand Vin at Clarke. He's gone to 70% merlot and 30% cab. A switch to an easier style, and quicker maturing style. Who knows ? he cant get the price for the Listrac / Moulis commune, yet Chasse Spleen have progressed onwards and upwards.

The 82 will have been the Cab dominated blend, and IMHO, superior for the climat on this plateau and for long keeping with finesse, but without the price ?

Do we assume that the Baron was throwing money around with best oak and the firm ripe cab domiated fruit that was so exceptional in St Julien further north in 1982, also prevailed here ?

My advice, buy 1 and enjoy (or otherwise) with supper in France. Buy the other 3 and carry home if this hits the spot for you.

There was one or two prices from merchants in USA for '82 that were only marginally more than £20 per bottle. My web investigations show that the States is much better value than the UK for less illustrious clarets. There was price in Switzerland.

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Duncan

The 68 is the default bottom of the scale, with no tasting note. As an indicator - completely Spurious, there were no 82's from good chateaus in Moulis and Listrac that were 68/100 - nonsense.

The 1989 scored 90 ponits (1989 and 1982 were similar) But was assessed in 1999.

Cellar tracker had a chap enjoying the 1994, as a vintage not rated by me, from memory or in my mind, at all at the Cru Bourgeois Excep'l level

I think we have to assume that the wine is old, and more than possibly, very nice at its peek.

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Duncan

Learn something every day...OK it's up to 75 here...and €26

http://en.vinoo.eu/wineries/2672/chatea ... ntage=1982

Learn something every day...OK it's up to 75 here...and €26

Ba look more closely - go to the supplier and the price is 39.5 euro and everything on that page has a 75 ranking. I'm affraid most of this stuff on The Vinoo page, and all those web sorting programmes and their marketing stuff is utter bullshit.

http://en.vinoo.eu/retailers/75/wijn-antiquariaat

That web site is total bo**ocks.

Look at this one if you want a laught
http://en.vinoo.eu/wine/190109/bellegra ... ilion-1964

I've drunk Bellegrave Saint Emilion in the 80's it is a minor petite chateau, not in many books. The 1964 would be completely wretched by now, they then say it is made in a Pauillac chateau and want 55 euro - complete and utter rubbish. Bellegrave is a common name in Bordeaux, so the web sort programme goes loopy with associations.

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Duncan

Just trying to be helpful. I am oft told that I am trying. Shall keep my own council in future.

Ba, your skills are pages of amusement and laughter and Chenin tasting notes - Perhaps checking out old claret on very dodgy web sites is not one of them

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Duncan

I wouldnt give you an old carrot for old claret. Or maybe just the one.

Not a nice tasty home grown one from the allotment then ?

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Duncan