When you lot refer to pith do you mean it to describe the flavour or the texture/body of a wine.

Is your pith my stalky doo dah

Well, the pith of a grape is the main stuff in the middle, but I have presumed it is a taste like that of the white layer under the skin of citrus fruits.
For me though it is the upturned helmet out of which I occasionally drink my wine...

Sorry, just taking the pith.

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Four wheels move the body - 2 wheels move the soul.

Yes its the pith under the skin of citrus fruits. Might be a combination of both flavour and texture but I imagine it originates from the skin of the grape.

Stalky doo dah, I take to mean coming from the stalks which is different in my eyes, or er mouth.

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tribs

I've taken this to be that woody-tannic flavour from violent pessing with too many leaves, stems, picker's underwear etc.

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Four wheels move the body - 2 wheels move the soul.

Stalky doo dah = skins, pips and stalks. Whatever gives a wine that nasty phenolic effect.

Citrus fruit pith is dry and tastelessa and a bit chewy if there's too much of it so I just wondered if when a wine taster talks of pith he/she means that the wine is phenolic.

Agreed with most of above.

I think you need to be careful when you mix phenols with pith, most phenols exist in the form of tannins which can come from several areas, skin, seeds, stalk, and it also affects a wines colour when it absorbs oxygen, whereas pith is associated mostly with skin contact.

Mel should be able to explain this better.

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Yep, Im still here.

nasty phenolic effect.

I waited for you guys to say something, before writing this lot.

My understanding of phenols is that we would not be able to detect the aroma of a ripening fruit without those lovely phenols. As the skin tightens around a swelling and ripening fruit, an organic reaction occurs, between the dermis of the fruit and the outer skin, that offers protection. The phenols are responsible for producing the fragrance, the aromatic oils require phenols to project the aroma into the air around our nose. Squeeze some fresh basic between your fingers and an amazing organic reaction occurs. Ok, basil is pungent, yet on a cold day it is not that noticable, the leaves are more stable, and there is no changing pressure going on inside the cells of the leaf.

For Pith, I think this is easier. Take a fresh sweet chestnut, that is not baked in the ashes, peel the hard brown skin layer off, and the soft creamy casing around the seed (nut) is the strongest flavour of pith I know.

With citrus fruits, pith is immediately under the skin and pigment layer, there is also pith between the segments of the fruit, yet as it ripens the pith is reduced in flavour and volume. The strongest pith flavour in a citrus fruit, is the protection immediately around the seeds in the central part of the fruit.

In white wine, and particularly the charateristics of SB, more pith is tasted in the dry style when the fruit is picked just before it turns and starts to ferment a little from its own yeasts. Therefore we do not detect much pith, if any in botrytised semillon and SB grapes for Sauternes, nor in chenin blanc grapes for moelleux Vouvray.

For reds, I find that gamay will produce some pith flavour in the beaujolais wines, and pith is evident in bourgogne pinot and some Mercurey. I'll say now, that my experience is limited to French and NZ white wines. For gamay and mercurey pinot, I consider this pith flavour to be due to ripeness of the fruit, and some soil types in the vineyard.

I know that all sounds somewhat simplistic, rather than purely sensory, but that is how I see it. Simply.... the taste and feel (furry as well in the mouth, as sometimes sensed on the gums) of pith on the tongue's taste buds. The tongue receptors measure (sense) pith differently, I generally detect most of the pith after the main flavour of the fruit and after the tannins, but that is the how my receptors are engineered.

Other folks have different receptors

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Duncan

Buy some pomegranates, leave in the bowl for the skin to shrink and harden even more, and the fruit inside, to ripen to perfection. Cut up into segments and pull off the juicy burgundy seed cases and all, from the hard skin with your teeth, crunching away the whole thing, so that you are just left with pieces of knobbrly egg shell like waste.

That for me, is the epitome of satisfying pith with your red fruits. Many find it just too much to take. The pomegranate fruit needs to be spot on ripeness, and full.

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Duncan

Thanks for the replies. I have some Goldwater 2010 on order. A few people have described it as pithy, I shall see if I can tell the difference between pithy and stalky.

The wind is howling here and the rain is beginning to fall. What a lovely day to go and watch rugby. The pub will be warm but I fancy a soaking getting to and from Cardiff.

I also fancy a thrashing. England looked good in the Autumn.

Lost the immaculate ball-handling skills...

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Four wheels move the body - 2 wheels move the soul.

Where will it all end? Cardiff have changed their name to "Pretty in Pink"

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Four wheels move the body - 2 wheels move the soul.